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Robbier44 |
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04 Nov 2007 |
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This has been brought up before. Can't you please post some guidelines for formatting debates? "Is Freddy better than Jason" or "Do you prefer vampires or werewolves? Are not debates! They are simple questions or opinion polls. Some of us put a lot of hought into the debates, but things like that aren't debate topics as posted. Please!!
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Desertkid |
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03 Nov 2007 |
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Robbier, I'm not debating over having a debate, but I am curious about what types of topics can be debated that don't include people's opinions. I was never good at debate in school, don't really like arguing because it just raises my blood pressure. Some people enjoy it and I enjoy listening, sometimes. Just want to know a few topics that you would consider good debate issues.
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Robbier44 |
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04 Nov 2007 |
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It, not so much the topics, but how they are presented. In a real debate, someone should be able to defend a position even if they personally don't agree with it. I don't expect that here, but when we defend our opinion, we should have a reason for that defense. That's what makes it interesting. The person initiating the debate shouldn't being stating their own position before the debate even starts. When I post a debate I present a statement. I know my position, but I want to see what others think and why.
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Amore01 |
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01 Nov 2007 |
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I strongly agree there needs to be some sort of vetting process for posting debates. And ALSO a posting of guidelines.
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Chris |
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31 Oct 2007 |
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Hi everyone,
Sorry its taken a while to get back to you & thanks robbier44 for starting this thread.
We have written some new guidelines and a new help page for debates and will be getting it on the site as soon as we can.
Thanks for your patience.
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Amore01 |
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01 Nov 2007 |
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Very cool. Can't wait to see it. If you think you helpful, following is some additional info that might be useful--whether or not you can use this, thanks again.
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Amore01 |
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01 Nov 2007 |
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WHAT IS "DEBATE"?
Debate is about change and debate forums are formed with the idea of resolving an issue or problem. ‘Argument' does not mean ‘fighting’ in debate. An argument is a statement of for or against. A debate is not an undisciplined shouting match between parties that passionately believe in a particular point of view or just an opinion without reasoning. In fact the opposite is true. Debating has courteous rules and techniques (called principles of debate) that people use to attempt to persuade others using reasoning.
Whether the United Nations, faculty meetings, in the office, or even at your dinner table, the debate process is the same –a reasoned exchange that resolves an issue and/or determines whether change is good or bad (whether it should happen or not). We debate whether abortion should be legal or whether smoking should be banned; the faculty debates school policies; you may recently have debated with your parents about increasing your allowance, whether/where you should go to college, when you can begin to drive/have your own car, or if you should be allowed to date, etc.
How Do I Write a Debate Statement (or TOPIC) For This Debate Forum?
1)The topic changes from debate to debate. A topic could be about current issues of public importance ("All people who are physically able should be organ donors") --or about general philosophies or ideas (like "beauty is better than brains" or “Dogs make better house pets than cats”).
2) A debate can be resolved by through objective reasoning using facts as tools. That’s why it’s not a debate when someone just asks if plum jam tastes better than strawberry. While you can say what YOU like better, there is no common criteria for what tastes the best to all people, so it's not something that can be resolved through debate.
3) A debate statement is NOT a question, it’s a statement. Those who agree with the topic statement are called the AFFIRMATIVE/FOR, and those who disagree with the topic are called the NEGATIVE/AGAINST. When you write a good debate statement, it will be clear to others responding in which column their answer belongs— they will be able to say YES, I agree with the debate statement, or NO, I do not. (For example: A question like “who is hotter, Joe or Zac?” wouldn’t work. A responder can’t respond yes or no to that.)
What do I write Under the Debate statement?
Deciding and explaining what your statement means is called `defining the topic'. In Blurtit, that means you have to clarify what you mean under that first statement... For example, it might not be clear what you mean by “dogs make better house pets than cats”—so in the statement underneath, you could explain about what you mean by “better”. Example:They don’t cough up hairballs, shed, etc
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Chris |
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31 Oct 2007 |
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Thanks for that amore, I will pass that on.
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Chris |
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31 Oct 2007 |
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Hi everyone,
We have added a basic debate section on the help pages and also modified the start a debate page. I would appreciate your comments and suggestions, hopefully these changes will overcome some of the problems that have been mentioned here.
Thanks
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Robbier44 |
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04 Nov 2007 |
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Hi, John. It looks as if I really stirred things up with the Leno/Kimmel "debate". It's rather obvious that no one is looking at the debate instructions that have been provided. They probably don't know about them. They need to be in a more prominent location.
There had been some suggestions about a Popularity Poll feature. Is there some kind of problem initiating that? Sierrra Mist/7-Up, Burger King/McDonalds, and Jay Leno/Jimmy Kimmel are just that. They aren't debates.
It's not our intention to make it about formal debates, but to stimulate arguments (discussions), not just a vote.
I've been doing some research. A debate is a confrontation between two groups who present arguments to support opposing sides of a proposition or statement. It doesn't involve a question, nor does it represent the personal opinion of the one who initiated the debate. There are some members who are very good at that. Each side presents the merits of their side of the isssue in an attempt to persuade the opposition of those merits.
I suggest the staff approve a debate before allowing it to post. Maybe if some of them were rejected, with an explanation, people would get the idea of what debates are. It could eliminate duplicate debates. When I say duplicate, I mean there are some that have been identical to older debates. People aren't checking to see if the subject has already been debated. Case in point, last week someone started a debate about stem cell research. It was identical to one I posted months ago.
I hope this helps, because some of us have stopped participating in the ridiculous "debates" that have been appeasring on the site. There are also those of us who put some effort into our responses so maybe a minimum word answer should be considered.
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Chris |
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31 Oct 2007 |
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Hi robbier44,
I read all the comments in the debate you mentioned with interest. Thanks for posting about it in this thread.
There isn't a problem creating a poll feature, I just don't think it would be utilized, a lot of the "lower quality" debates are also seeking to hear the reasons behind others opinions. I also think however prominent we make the guidelines people will continue to post these kinds of debates.
We could mark all new debates as unapproved and wait until a moderator checks them until we make them live on the site, but you have to bear in mind that most of the moderators are based outside the US so there would be a significant amount of time before the go live (anywhere between 8 - 12 hours). So think this would have to be a last resort.
I have given this a lot of thought and lately I have been thinking about methods of dividing the debate section into two parts. The first and default choice when creating a debate would be be a "just for fun" section. We would also give the option to change this to a "serious" debate. We could then divide the for and against page using this as a filter. This may negate the need for a new feature to be developed and keep both new and older Blurter's happy.
What are your thoughts ?
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Desertkid |
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03 Nov 2007 |
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This is finally starting to make sense...duh, I know it takes me awhile sometimes. I haven't been participating much in the debates over the last couple of months because of some of the obnoxious statements made by blurters that make no sense at all or they start debates that are actually opinions. The opinon "debates" are sometimes good but, like you say, aren't actually debatable, there should be another section for "opinion groups". Glad we can finally get some more guidelines. Amore, I especially like that you gave some examples. Keep up the good work you guys! Robbie, there's still hope for us..lol
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Robbier44 |
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04 Nov 2007 |
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Thanks, dkid. I'd like to know how others would feel about an opinion poll feature. I think it would be very popular especially among the younger members.
John, I think the "two section" debates won't solve anyting. It sounds confusing to me. An opinion poll feature could be the "just for fun" part and would include the "lower quality debates. That might "free up" the site for some more serious and interesting subjects, and there are some very good debates that have been posted recently.
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Chris |
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31 Oct 2007 |
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Hi Robbier44,
Sorry I probably didn't explain myself very well ( I have a bad habit of rambling on )
Basically it would be up to the person who started the debate to choose whether it was a fun "poll" or a serious debate, unless you change it to a serious debate it would always go into the fun section. ( I don't think most the users who post these debates mean to aggravate, they just want to converse with other people about their opinions) The fun section would be kept completely separate from the serious debates.
I think this would give the more serious debaters a chance to have their own section and be able to avoid the less mature debates.
As I said in my previous post, I cannot see creating a new poll feature stopping people creating low quality debates.
Hope that clears up how i envisaged it working, I should point out this is just an idea and... Up for debate : )
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Robbier44 |
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04 Nov 2007 |
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Funny, John, funny:)
I understand now. I'd like to see it work. Any chance of it happening soon?
I still think instructions for serious debate need a more visible location. Thanks
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Zwanger |
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Executive Blurter |
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02 Jan 2008 |
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Hi John
I think an opinion poll would work. I think it would be used quite a bit by younger ones and people who like joke debates. Perhaps you could allow a short comment of less than 50 words for those who wish to illustrate their choice.
How's this for an idea: - for genuine debates, what about rejecting debate reponses of less than 100 words - so a person can't put in a response at all unless it has had some serious consideration.
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Robbier44 |
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04 Nov 2007 |
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Zwanger, I can't thank you enough for yout input. I think it is a perfect illustration of what I've been trying to say.
John, I see that there is an instruction that tells Blurters debates are not questions. Apparently no one is paying attention. I think that any debate ending with a question mark should be rejected with the explanation that "A debate is not a question. It should be posted under the category of questions."
The idea of an opinion poll seems to have gotten posiyive feedback.
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Lovelyme |
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29 Jan 2008 |
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A debate is different with a question, but I think it can be formatted as question style, something like ' should smoking be banned?' is a perfect debate topic.
I don't think deny any debate topic which contains a question mark is a good idea.
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Amore01 |
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01 Nov 2007 |
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Hear, hear to opinion/discussion forum separate from debate!!! Yes! (wait, am I being redundant? Well let's put that question in the opinion poll...)
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Robbier44 |
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04 Nov 2007 |
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Lovelyme, I didn't mean to reject the topic. I simply meant that it should be reworded as a debate. A question doesn't always lend itself to a "for" or "against" response. Your example about smoking can be worded without it being a question.
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To Debate Or Not To A Debte? That Is The Question,
To Debate Or Not To A Debte? That Is The Question, 
